First of all, good argument. I agree with you on the first 2. The 3rd will probably be very hard to drop because it's the name for the entire movement. I'm not sure what they could change to without having that new new/term just quickly absorb all the meaning (pro and con) associated with the first term. Still, speaking as a man, you're absolutely right that I usually wince when I hear the terms "patriarchy" or "toxic masculinity" (the one exception being if their talking about a *particularly* patriarchal society).
Now, a bit of a tangent I hope you won't mind me discussing. Even though I hate neoliberal identity politics, I feel somewhat sorry for liberal women right now. This is because I think they're trapped in a particularly cruel way. Women are more agreeable than men by nature, from what I've heard from psychology experts, and this also seems intuitively correct to me. Some also say that women are more conformist. I think for liberal women, they look to older respected female voices to lead the way. Hillary Clinton put them on a path that has thus far been disastrous, politically. And other high-profile women have largely echoed Hillary since, across party lines (Nikki Haley had nice things to say about Hillary IIRC). So they're trapped following bad advice, or perhaps even falling into a horribly distorted worldview. But this has happened *because* of their nature, not in spite of it. A nature that in most times and places has served them well. It's hard for me to see how they get out of it, and so I seriously wonder if America will ever have a woman President.
This is shocking to write, because I remember thinking back in 2006 that women Presidents would be the wave of the future. At the time, it seemed certain that Hillary Clinton would one day be President. Now both her *and* Harris have failed. I truly don't think that sexism or misogyny was a major factor in either of these losses... but I can kind of understand why liberal women do.
Great point, and this is something that I hope to cover in a little bit of a later post — representation is absolutely important, so I think it’s really sad that people like Nikki Haley and Tulsi Gabbard are routinely pushed away to the fringes of their own party
Additionally, you judge on a very important point about the echo chambers created by media ecosystems. There’s a book by Dr. Stewart Russell about the nature of algorithms, and he points out that it’s easier to predict someone’s behaviour if they nudge your preferences, which is what I think we’re seeing happen more and more between men and women
“What I do with my own body is my business, and you feeling entitled to my own time and emotions is toxic,” say the same people who were outraged by the MGTOW movement
Men probably aren't committing suicide because they can't express their feelings. Having watched my best mate get divorced and basically the whole system line up to fuck him over, I'd guess that a lot more of it is because of things like that.
Redefing racism, the logical inconsistencies of feminism etc.... no-one gives a crap. You are confusing what you use ideas for and what they are doing. You want to describe the world and the processes you see around you, hopefully to either adapt yourself better to them, or to utilise them to make life better. This is not what feminism or crt are for. They are tribal weapons. They are only meant to increase the power of the tribe by claiming the right to sociocultural weapons while denying them to the enemy. CRT aims to allow the in-group intense cultivation of racial identity, while denying it to the out group, feminism does the same thing. Double standards and hypocrisy are the point, logical consistency and truth are entirely irrelevant. They are the cultural version of the US sponsored nuclear non proliferation treaty. It's good when we have bombs, but bad if you want them too.
Good article, though I don't think they're renaming their movement.
I think (with the exception of reverses like abortion) they've gotten about as much as they're going to get and are starting to see a real pushback from the younger generation of men. But we will see! It's possible for the sexes to simply hate each other, which is stable over the short-term though with the obvious problem of a declining birth rate.
i must stop. i've had uncountable mental orgasms over your slow live-person-conversation style that defies the substack conventions. it inspires me!
my friend, Valentine said i skate past so much on my own substack and wants me to go back into my regular long-form full of slow details and i chafed writhed SCREAMED because NO! i've no TIME for clarification / it doesn't matter; no one GETS any of this. no one has attention spans on substack because it is truly embarrassing crazy mad RICH just how many good ideas daring yes beautifully truthful and defiant and competitive i loooove it! oh yeah? watch where i can take THIS... it's break dancing battles here bringing blood erections and seminal ideas in fractals and it's so exciting / read something somewhere...today's been a reading day and i loooove all these new ideas i love being scared and surprised in haunted houses ... spalding grey was monologuing about how he was punked by his friends about lights being ufos and he was ecstatic even when he found out he'd been duped because he could STILL BELIEVE... believing in santa again... anyhow... i clicked and smashed the keyboards to follow so many of your links ... i don't need/want to meet you in real life because this is more than ENOUGH!... i love how you trick and are specific and honest and funny...thank you of COURSE you have...you're EXCLUSIVE... and i giggle because i like it that way... i couldn't be successful as a micro famous author long because i hate loathe distrust popularity and i tried to contort myself into at least respectability... blah blah blah... i'm excited to WRITE just because you exist and hold true to your long form which for me...i love all the different minds but you take less contorting for me to UNDERSTAND and i love surrendering and following your thought because it'll be like a good ending of a movie... but it helps me interpret OTHERS you link to and that's yeah... that's what i love and forget about art...in the biggest sense of word. sorry for the mess. can't edit when i'm being true and wanna give you the freshest possibly ugliest tomatoes. ya dig? (smile) gotta go... thanks for holding true to your delivery your ...SEDUCTION as a writer thinker. writer is too small a term here. these are thoughts not made trite by the medium and i dig that defiance and refusal to let the room dictate your delivery. YOU set the tone. yeah. thank you. i trust that.
x
p.s. may blather as thoughts come. i don't care about embarrassing you. you already know the others barely exist. you're SKETCHING for yourself! cool. the best artists never give a fuck. they swagger. fuck yeah. / out. (for now)
Human write clearly. Human write wise words. Human will be completely ignored.
Share it if you think it might help someone!
First of all, good argument. I agree with you on the first 2. The 3rd will probably be very hard to drop because it's the name for the entire movement. I'm not sure what they could change to without having that new new/term just quickly absorb all the meaning (pro and con) associated with the first term. Still, speaking as a man, you're absolutely right that I usually wince when I hear the terms "patriarchy" or "toxic masculinity" (the one exception being if their talking about a *particularly* patriarchal society).
Now, a bit of a tangent I hope you won't mind me discussing. Even though I hate neoliberal identity politics, I feel somewhat sorry for liberal women right now. This is because I think they're trapped in a particularly cruel way. Women are more agreeable than men by nature, from what I've heard from psychology experts, and this also seems intuitively correct to me. Some also say that women are more conformist. I think for liberal women, they look to older respected female voices to lead the way. Hillary Clinton put them on a path that has thus far been disastrous, politically. And other high-profile women have largely echoed Hillary since, across party lines (Nikki Haley had nice things to say about Hillary IIRC). So they're trapped following bad advice, or perhaps even falling into a horribly distorted worldview. But this has happened *because* of their nature, not in spite of it. A nature that in most times and places has served them well. It's hard for me to see how they get out of it, and so I seriously wonder if America will ever have a woman President.
This is shocking to write, because I remember thinking back in 2006 that women Presidents would be the wave of the future. At the time, it seemed certain that Hillary Clinton would one day be President. Now both her *and* Harris have failed. I truly don't think that sexism or misogyny was a major factor in either of these losses... but I can kind of understand why liberal women do.
Great point, and this is something that I hope to cover in a little bit of a later post — representation is absolutely important, so I think it’s really sad that people like Nikki Haley and Tulsi Gabbard are routinely pushed away to the fringes of their own party
Additionally, you judge on a very important point about the echo chambers created by media ecosystems. There’s a book by Dr. Stewart Russell about the nature of algorithms, and he points out that it’s easier to predict someone’s behaviour if they nudge your preferences, which is what I think we’re seeing happen more and more between men and women
“What I do with my own body is my business, and you feeling entitled to my own time and emotions is toxic,” say the same people who were outraged by the MGTOW movement
3 points:
Men probably aren't committing suicide because they can't express their feelings. Having watched my best mate get divorced and basically the whole system line up to fuck him over, I'd guess that a lot more of it is because of things like that.
Redefing racism, the logical inconsistencies of feminism etc.... no-one gives a crap. You are confusing what you use ideas for and what they are doing. You want to describe the world and the processes you see around you, hopefully to either adapt yourself better to them, or to utilise them to make life better. This is not what feminism or crt are for. They are tribal weapons. They are only meant to increase the power of the tribe by claiming the right to sociocultural weapons while denying them to the enemy. CRT aims to allow the in-group intense cultivation of racial identity, while denying it to the out group, feminism does the same thing. Double standards and hypocrisy are the point, logical consistency and truth are entirely irrelevant. They are the cultural version of the US sponsored nuclear non proliferation treaty. It's good when we have bombs, but bad if you want them too.
theres a lot of things that people would be much more accepting of if the subject is just reframed without a lot of cultural baggage
Feminism has only be able to survive in the West because we have a plenty onlf inmigrant born in Patriarchies.
Good article, though I don't think they're renaming their movement.
I think (with the exception of reverses like abortion) they've gotten about as much as they're going to get and are starting to see a real pushback from the younger generation of men. But we will see! It's possible for the sexes to simply hate each other, which is stable over the short-term though with the obvious problem of a declining birth rate.
i must stop. i've had uncountable mental orgasms over your slow live-person-conversation style that defies the substack conventions. it inspires me!
my friend, Valentine said i skate past so much on my own substack and wants me to go back into my regular long-form full of slow details and i chafed writhed SCREAMED because NO! i've no TIME for clarification / it doesn't matter; no one GETS any of this. no one has attention spans on substack because it is truly embarrassing crazy mad RICH just how many good ideas daring yes beautifully truthful and defiant and competitive i loooove it! oh yeah? watch where i can take THIS... it's break dancing battles here bringing blood erections and seminal ideas in fractals and it's so exciting / read something somewhere...today's been a reading day and i loooove all these new ideas i love being scared and surprised in haunted houses ... spalding grey was monologuing about how he was punked by his friends about lights being ufos and he was ecstatic even when he found out he'd been duped because he could STILL BELIEVE... believing in santa again... anyhow... i clicked and smashed the keyboards to follow so many of your links ... i don't need/want to meet you in real life because this is more than ENOUGH!... i love how you trick and are specific and honest and funny...thank you of COURSE you have...you're EXCLUSIVE... and i giggle because i like it that way... i couldn't be successful as a micro famous author long because i hate loathe distrust popularity and i tried to contort myself into at least respectability... blah blah blah... i'm excited to WRITE just because you exist and hold true to your long form which for me...i love all the different minds but you take less contorting for me to UNDERSTAND and i love surrendering and following your thought because it'll be like a good ending of a movie... but it helps me interpret OTHERS you link to and that's yeah... that's what i love and forget about art...in the biggest sense of word. sorry for the mess. can't edit when i'm being true and wanna give you the freshest possibly ugliest tomatoes. ya dig? (smile) gotta go... thanks for holding true to your delivery your ...SEDUCTION as a writer thinker. writer is too small a term here. these are thoughts not made trite by the medium and i dig that defiance and refusal to let the room dictate your delivery. YOU set the tone. yeah. thank you. i trust that.
x
p.s. may blather as thoughts come. i don't care about embarrassing you. you already know the others barely exist. you're SKETCHING for yourself! cool. the best artists never give a fuck. they swagger. fuck yeah. / out. (for now)