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Highlander's avatar

I think a lot of the love from the left for Aragorn comes from Peter Jackson's version of the character, who is much more the unwilling hero type than a King planning his return to the crown. It makes it more palatable to them that he is a supremely gifted, virtuous man since he doesn't *really* want his destiny. Both versions are good in their own right though!

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Belte's avatar

Yes, you make a great point. The left’s heroes always have to be full of doubts (like many of themselves) particularly about their identities that they overcome. Hence, the left really recoils at pulp fiction champions like Conan or Solomon Kane who are supremely aware of who they are and what role they must play to protect and conquer.

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9A's avatar

As someone who was trying to publish a fantasy novel for over a year and got pretty deep inside info from Big Five authors and agents, this tracks. People often protest that the top sellers in SFF are written by men (Sanderson, Jordan, Butcher, GRRM, JRRT) note that none of these guys debuted recently and some are dead. If you look at what's coming down the pipeline of new authors, the picture is bleak.

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Jay's avatar

There is a lot, and I mean a lot, of male oriented digital fiction. Self publishing on Amazon Kindle is most common. I rarely read major publishers anymore but I'm in no danger of ever running out.

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9A's avatar

Absolutely true! But some people still go to brick and mortar bookstores or place orders for the library. It usually takes a Big Five publisher to get your book into those places.

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Luke's avatar

Anything particularly good you’d recommend checking out?

We need to build up and support our own cottage industry of this stuff, and let the main houses die out

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Thwap's avatar

The four points your use here describe Demon Copperhead perfectly. I realize it’s based partly on David Copperfield, which I have not read, but what infuriates me about the modern retelling is how wrong it gets the mental model of a young boy in this kind of situation.

Also a 5th point you can add is that modern literature (and all art actually) seems to work under the assumption that experiencing tragedy and hardship (aka “oppression”) automatically in itself makes a person both interesting and morally righteous. They assume you can have a character experience shitty break after shitty break and it automatically makes an interesting story and empathetic figure.

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Lirpa Strike's avatar

I loved Demon Copperhead and started wondering recently, amid all this talk about the lack of authentic male perspectives and voices in literature, how men who read it felt about it. I'm so curious about what else you think of it. What did you think was inaccurate, or what would have been a better representation of a young boy in that situation?

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Matt Nix's avatar

I really liked Demon Copperhead as well. I wouldn’t say it got anything wrong about the male experience in particular, though it didn’t surprise me with some unexpected insight about the male experience. That said, I didn’t come to it looking for that, and I just enjoyed the read.

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Nate Winchester's avatar

~~As Freddie deBoer describes in his article, the people in these gatekeeping positions constantly flip-flop between two separate and irreconcilable arguments.

The first is an attitude of sneering dismissal — that claims to indignation are invalid, because this supposed discrimination isn’t happening.

But then, moments later, the very same people will turn around and acknowledge that it is happening, but it’s actually a good thing.~~

Rod Dreher named it over a decade ago as "the law of merited impossibility"

https://www.theamericanconservative.com/the-law-of-merited-impossibility/

"It’s a complete absurdity to believe that X will happen, and boy, do they deserve what they’re going to get."

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Norris Comer's avatar

I'm also optimistic that we might be on the cusp of a pretty epic and mostly awesome Menaissance in the arts. Mainstream publishing specifically as you point out is so hopelessly skewed right now to something like 80% female that even The New York Times is pointing it out. I have a rule of thumb that The New York Times is always the last to notice real world events, but it is the ultimate signal to the monied masters of the universe to take something seriously. It moves the needle among the crowd that can actually do something about the state of affairs--or see profit in doing something (more likely).

I think a curveball you don't bring up is that female and gay writing specifically has received insane financial backing from both the public and private sectors in the form of grants, donors, etc. with political motives. The mainstream publishing world right now is probably more removed from a free market of books competing for organic popularity than... ever? These big billionaire-owned houses have been firing off six, seven, eight figure book advances to their pet demographics for years without giving a damn of making $2 in return. It's part of the reason dudes under 40 are so pissed right now, ha! Even if you get a book out, it can't compete against that apparatus. You're like a guy selling apples at the farmer's market versus the Big Ag lobby.

It's hard to have an organic, healthy shift in a culture like this one. That might be why we're seeing rival billionaires like Peter Thief get in the game. And men's only imprints. I'm not sure if there's any way this plays out over the next year or two that isn't ugly... a sort of masculine Visigoth horde sacking a complacent, decadent, femme Rome. Change is coming one way or another.

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Anonymous Dude's avatar

Hey, some ladies are into that...

OK, seriously, one big problem is that younger guys are big into video games and anime for narrative entertainment. Men have been more visual for a while, but even comic books looked pretty crappy in the 40s. So nobody writes books for men, which means men don't read...I have a friend who has a teenage son and she can't get anything for him, I was recommending old books out of Appendix N.

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Nate Winchester's avatar

Also dude, can you check out sometime Saga of the Forgotten Warrior?

I need some other people to talk about it with.

https://www.amazon.com/Black-Sword-Saga-Forgotten-Warrior-ebook/dp/B016QP1PJW/

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Rohan Ghostwind's avatar

I'll take a look, cheers :)

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Jason's avatar

As a very much liberal/progressive person who first learned of Larry Correia because I was internet friends with people who hated him, I can vouch he's a terrific writer and this series is great.

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David Muccigrosso's avatar

Cromwell is good shit.

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Testname's avatar

Ok, ill say it

Horus’s character arc is overrated, his fall to Chaos is rushed, and it boils down to “a wizard did it”.

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Unit 5S Delta's avatar

Horus suffered from being written in the first few books, like Fulgrim's fall, before they decided to make it a 60 something book series.

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Testname's avatar

Fair. I have only read the first four books (well, listened to the audiobooks) for the heresy.

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Unit 5S Delta's avatar

The pacing changes drastically after the fourth. It goes from rushing to the siege to actually building up the plot and character arcs, often with a book covering one planet instead of multiple.

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ERIKA LOPEZ's avatar

and pray tell, my dear man, are YOU working on a novel yet???

i kept waiting for you to say one's in progress throughout this piece.

you could even do it here in installments like Dickens.

but comments and publicity can be problematic when it's young ugly and you're not sure if it's even pretty.

you'll figure it out you know how to step up to a routine and go all out.

i'll be one of your unknown readers if you go that route.

x

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ERIKA LOPEZ's avatar

WOOOOOOW

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ERIKA LOPEZ's avatar

here she goes again / but i told you i was gonna focus my sunshine onto you:

first of all, fuck counting paying subscribers. i've got none because i don't want another thing to judge my bloodletting against. it's a trap just like the counts. same as with the gym and why you cried at what you healed regarding your shoulder and how you went magical and went BEYOND.

it's training for THIS now. whatever your dream is. and right now you men are the blues the ghetto you are hip hop because you're the new niggers and that's where there's ART and no one's gonna give you or tell you what needs to be done. you've gotta run into this burning building and be the hero.

all the stuff you say if you lift heavy. i used to wear a push up bra and crazy opaque barbie pink lipstick before i'd deadlift because if i was gonna fail with that much attitude i'd have to take MYSELF out to some back alley somewhere to kick my own ass for not stepping up to a push up bra and barbie pink lipstick attitude. it gave me swagger.

i told myself a STORY. you tell 'em here and to yourself because you also have heart and Jane Austin... ugh that neil strauss guy ... he got that he peed in his own water.

that's what i'm on about: how do you FLIP it in this culture. that means to be a romantic, which men are because women receive and EXPECT the romance (James taught me this to my astonishment and it made me kick up my game because i was taught to do ladies romance side when i was young by older latinas. Puerto Rican girls are... USED TO BE a whole OTHER level of ...it was an art we started young to spoil ruthlessly. so feminism confused me because those Puerto Rican girls who were just dyin to meet the rolling stones were hardly ever weak.

anyhow, tomato tomahto...

(not really)

i'm a mad writer, i try to gouge out my innards to a rhythm people can bear but you have passion heart AND structure to your text.

so i think a monthly installment would be good for you. it actually seems a natural extension because we NEED the truth of fiction right now. i do. i haven't read fiction in i can't even remember. it hasn't been artful in telling me anything i don't know or something i need to know.

write above the culture you think rules the world because like the others, i think you've got Something. that's why i'm here. i'm a 4X self-absorbed leo working on my own madness now, but i NEED to see the future.

and like the others i think you're the future. you've got a toughness and stamina with that heart and your take on stories in just daily life are interesting. the details you see notice the breaks you give people but how you also hold 'em accountable.

yes. it is most definitely time for new stories from the bluesmen. your not niggers nor were the last ones. your visions of love honor and what's worth fighting for ARE "THE" QUESTION now. look at is as doing your brothers a service.

you've got game with the ladies not because of Jane Austen but because of THIS how you think what you say and i suppose you not caving comes across in real life. THAT's what strong women want. i've always said to the chagrin of my sisters:

ANY TRULY STRONG WOMAN CRAVES SOMEONE WORTHY OF BOWING BEFORE.

because they'd rather die a thousand torturous deaths than admit that.

i never told you how i bowed before both Wardy, my James of course, and this younger brother at the gym each i got on my motherfxckin KNEES like performance art and all the men's heads were blown to pink mists because they GOT IT. i had to apologize to Wardy for going off on him at the gym. you know how lifting heavy mixed with grrr well it made THIS Puerto Rican girl pop as my music was too hard too good.

so you're good with PEOPLE women men because you're yourself and we're all watching like WOW...how you do that?

write the book. publish it yourself to get it out. don't count on selling. it's not like that anymore. so many are broke or about to be. even and esp the rich ones. even if YOU it.

(smile)

novels and fiction can tell more truth. you know that so please... art! i'm dying for some fiction to tell me what just happened. really. i've got my own take but yeah... you who show up routinely and have heart and fight, what's yours???

AI can't do what you're about to do. it's torturous and grand and transcendent.

go!

you know you're itching. count on sucking for a long time. and there's no numbers or feedback... just you and the blank page.

oh yeah. about that. read or listen to "ART AND FEAR." i laughed when i saw it as i was cleaning up James' books after his death. "i don't need that!" and i arrogantly put it away in the garage and now i cannot find it and i desperately need/want it as i've been taking the audio version out of the library and listening to it over and over (i think it's an hour or two).

but we need new VISION. and writing and art isn't your world, it starts out yours then takes off, and ...we need new VISION. what's YOUR offering?

this is what i mean when i say all hands on deck. seriously. it's also why there's going to be an arts renaissance and is already happening. the art. music philosophy art tv/movies/theatre.

what have we been through but more importantly: WHO ARE WE???

we need love letters and i miss men's vision because you're the ROMANTICS. and we women had no VISION. Camille Paglie wrote about this in SEXUAL PERSONAE. i went to her art school for my academics and didn't know who she was didn't care but later she blew my mind. i got it.

read her. she said culture is men's vision. you all are the ones daring to go extremes women stay more middle safe because of the kids. so when women take over with no vision just more stuff and give me your job then fake rape me and buy me dinner but i don't wanna suck your dick, eeek.

don't let this substack take this from you. when erykah badu got on twitter she stopped making records. the innerwebs suck up creative TIME. it's a beast you feed. the numbers control. it's rough on the blank page of novels.

i know. i should be writing NOW.

(giggle)

true. gotta go.

besos, papi--

x

aunt kitten

x

x

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Alien_Relay 3.0's avatar

When the flow of money changes so will the authors that are chosen. The gatekeepers get marching orders from the big 5, if male writers in fiction become fashionable suddenly they'll be a huge market. Part of the problem is boys and men aren't reading as much. Sure if its tied to some games workshop product,but that niche is covered. Things change, I suggest going back and read some classics in the scifi and fantasy genres, let the goblins eat pussy for a few more years. Build a world.

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ERIKA LOPEZ's avatar

BROTHER! i looked at some of your stuff am writing on deadline can't fall in love with your work right now must be self absorbed i know you understand. i have to retain what little femininity i have left. when i first read tropic of cancer i threw it across the room and couldn't finish because i was writing flaming iguanas. i know you understand. Brother!

x

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ERIKA LOPEZ's avatar

dear Alien and Rohan, my dear brothers in arms and love--

to prove how just one little up-nod can incite power life and energy, just your attentions have given me the COURAGE i needed to finish a first draft last night and i've FINALLY found my voice in all this. i didn't want to become a parody of myself and i needed to find the RHYTHM as i read and re-read what i'm writing.

they're incantations for ME.

sometimes...okay, quite OFTEN... i forget why we write and art and music (yes i'm using them as verbs here no time for proper sentence structure that's why no punctuation etc) ...but i keep being told and see ancient quotes reminding me "so we find our people!" and seeing you guys GET ME and then i don't have to waste so much time explaining hoping or holding back. i can move on to the good stuff.

thank you, dear brothers. THIS is what it's all about: more YOU!

i love you two already. i do. and yes i come from the same world that thinks it costs you an arm and some legs to merely SAY so.

but no. another untruth.

back to writing. i finished my first draft and it soars for me finally. maybe no one else but me? fuck yeah.

thank you a thousand thank yous. and i adore you, Rohan. keep going.

xxxxxxx

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Rohan Ghostwind's avatar

:) yeah for sure, I’ll check it out when you post it

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ERIKA LOPEZ's avatar

oh no i'm not posting, this is private and for print. i'll figure out how to get it to you when i'm done.

thank you soooo much.

x

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Alien_Relay 3.0's avatar

No need. Do as you must. 50/50 reciprocating is something I don't expect. Good luck on your deadline.

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ERIKA LOPEZ's avatar

"50/50 reciprocating is something I don't expect."

darling, isn't that why we're here at Rohan's site??? because you men expect so little regarding reciprocity? no. i will be all over your work once i've finished mine. the writing is the torture part for me and if i read you i might decide to sit it out and read you instead.

x

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Alien_Relay 3.0's avatar

As far as goblin pussy eating that's not my idea, there's a writer on here that had that as a title “A goblin at my pussy” smutty fun reading, with a direct title.

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ERIKA LOPEZ's avatar

Alien and Rohan, would you each be willing to read what i'm writing??? i'm afraid that i'm either a parody of myself or insane but i'm trying to find my new voice my rhythm my energy. i want to see if what i wrote has energy of truth so i have to make sure i'm naked enough and not hiding my own care and love behind platitudes. i will take the week to revise but i need sympathetic but ruthless readers and things with my old friends are on shaky ground because of our diverging politics and culture so i'm alone. but i trust you each would not let me embarrass myself by being less than tits out.

thanks for your consideration,

erika

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ERIKA LOPEZ's avatar

"let the goblins eat pussy for a few more years. Build a world."

i'm laughing because i agree and you're absolutely right.

x

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ERIKA LOPEZ's avatar

i went out to smoke a little and my earlier laughter turned into, "wait... goblins eating pussy?... now THAT is hot." by definition a woman would never have a chance to sit down but upon another face.

¡somebody pleeeease write that up and stat!

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Pierce St. Claire's avatar

The first Black Library book is so good. I remember reading it and loving Loken and Tarkin. Fraternity and fatherhood are two big themes of the spaces marines and the Primarchs. Zam zaddy..... might need to write about this....

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Centaur Write Satyr, MBA's avatar

Nice one. If you’re looking for a funny foil to this, Phil’s whole stack is great, but this esp:

https://open.substack.com/pub/philrot/p/no-fiction-for-straight-men?r=bi6gf&utm_medium=ios

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Rohan Ghostwind's avatar

Nice, I’ll check it out

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Belte's avatar

Jer. 17:9 “The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately sick; who can understand it?”

Neither sex is immune from this deception. The female overlords and gatekeepers of the writing industry will find out how they are cruising on the previous labors of past writers who represent most of publishing earnings. The next generation does not read much and the boys find the YA literature their middle aged single female teachers push on them emasculating. The hope is in the independent “prole”writers who produce for the love of the game and don’t have to deal with GirlBosses.

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Brettbaker's avatar

1. John Ringo has said his most beloved by females series (Kildar) is "heavy' with BDSM (which it is) proving the point about female fantasy.

2. Brutal Kunnin' is better than Horus Rising.

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Elmer's avatar

Maybe men just don't buy fiction any more. Well written history is compelling. Fantasy seems like make-believe and impractical for the average fellow. Books are also easily pirated.

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Cathy Reisenwitz's avatar

Boys and men are much more likely to be illiterate and buy way fewer books

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